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[personal profile] clarysage
So my new therapist wrote me an email yesterday and dumped me. Yeah, you read that right, my therapist dumped me. All she said as to why was that she felt I wasn't ready to be as open as I need to be for her to help me. Which, btw, doesn't make much sense to me...after 3 sessions.

Oh well, so much for that. I'm not gonna try another one...what's the friggin' point?

Besides, when I'm not totally depressed, I'm in a pretty good mood, heheh.

But, I do have a question for you...
She kept saying I was "defended" not defensive, but defended.
Am I? I always think I'm pretty much open with most people I meet...
If not downright, easy to get to know...

That's probably what I get for trying to make her laugh...you know I like to do that? ^_^

But who knew, liking to make others laugh was a defensive tactic? O.o

Date: 2009-04-24 02:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xgizzardx.livejournal.com
humor is the ultimate defense actually...

nonetheless, i've had, dumped, been dumped by multiple therapists over the years... the right one for you will help amazingly, the wrong one will get you nowhere... but this crap about not getting through your humor defenses and dumping you, well thats just a WEAK therapist. Don't give up, just try again, if you really meant the heart of why you started looking for help. The journey itself will teach you.

Unraveling the mind is funny business, i'm defensively thinking you were smarter than this therapist, and they got confuzed by it.

*hugs*

keep truckin.

Date: 2009-04-24 02:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
is it? oops, lol
damn my funny bone!

really? that makes me feel better...i figured it was bad if she dumped me and not the other way around.

well...i did kinda point out that i thought she was judging me...and perhaps that was why i had a harder time opening up to her then to say, a stranger. she said that saying i was "defended" wasn't a judgement, but was like saying i had red hair, or blue eyes.
Then i judged her, and told her "I think you live alone with your cat, were married at some point, had a bad divorce, and found this "spirituality" in order to have something to believe in." her face completely closed off when i said that... ^^;

so you really think i should try to find another one? :/

Date: 2009-04-24 02:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xgizzardx.livejournal.com
well it also sounds like you insulted her, which didn't help anyone... sounds like she needs some help as well. Most therapists are damaged, that's how they empathize. Unfortunately this one was weak, and unprepared. Therapists should be ready to be judged, just as you should, as that is part of "peeling back" the layers of a persons natural defenses. Some of them judge you, its a tactic, you may have to accept that and allow the "invasiveness" if you want it to work though. That's really hard, but if you want this, you will learn a lot.
Yeah you found a crap one, move on, find some references on the next one.

Date: 2009-04-24 03:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
yeah, i think i did insult her...it was this whole conversation about how i hate when doctors who are severely overweight with a pack of cigarettes in their pocket, tell me to quit smoking.

well, see, if she'd admitted to judging me, i probably would have been like "ok then" but she denied it...

anyways, yeah, it's good to know it wasn't so much me?

since with any breakup i always wonder "what'd i do?"

Date: 2009-04-24 02:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lyonesse.livejournal.com
heh, i've been dumped by therapists too. thing to remember is as with anyone: it's usually more about them than about you.

Date: 2009-04-24 02:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
well, i wanted to think it was more her problem than mine, but then i wondered if maybe that was my problem? ^^

either way, being dumped kinda sucks...

Date: 2009-04-24 02:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lyonesse.livejournal.com
it totally sucked the last time -- i was totally strung out over it for weeks. but that one did me the "courtesy" of writing me several letters of "explanation", which allowed, in the end, for the requisite teaspoon of perspective.

that said, i gotta say: i deal with therapeutic data in my research, and i don't think i could deal with half the people i listen to. and i've considered going to school to get a therapeutic license, b/c i think i can be pretty helpful to some folks, sometimes. but it sure won't be everyone, and that is totally my thing, not theirs.

Date: 2009-04-24 03:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
yeah, i wish she'd said something other than i was too defended...
and she said she'd let my doctor know her conclusions...whatever they were, since she didn't tell me...which kinda erks me...

i think i'd be good at helping people too...but, some people you just can't help? and what if i'm one of the ones that can't be helped?

Date: 2009-04-24 03:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lyonesse.livejournal.com
in the data i have, i think the therapists do a pretty good job with most everyone they have. but they got to screen these people, so it's folks *they* thought they could help. not the same set as ones *i* could for sure.

i admit talk therapy never did much for me personally, and i had a lot of therapists (some of whom i liked a lot and believe worked hard). but there's lots of other stuff that helps in this world -- for me, it's been animals, music, writing, medication, and bicycles....

*hugs*

Date: 2009-04-24 03:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
hmmm, so, i should maybe try another one?
i honestly don't understand why she thought i was so difficult to help...

hehe, well, i do like most of those things...except for the medication and bicycles ^^;
i think she had a problem with my lack of spirituality...she was all "energy healing" and "chakras" ya know? and i just don't believe in that stuff..i don't think i need to believe in anything above me...really, you should just believe in yourself...right?

Date: 2009-04-24 03:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lyonesse.livejournal.com
i agree that's a pretty fundamental disagreement in worldviews. so i think she probably isn't a good match for you really, and you honestly might want to try somebody more simpatico.

i often don't believe in myself very well. but i don't do "energy healing" and chakras as my personal substitute. i do ponies and coral reefs and geology and falling stars, the seething beauty and mystery and complexity of the big blue world and the big black sky. individual mileage may vary :)

Date: 2009-04-24 03:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
yeah, i guess it was..but i didn't think therapists were supposed to care so much whether your view of the world is different from their own...

well, believing in yourself is a hard thing to do...i know i have a hard time with it, but at the same time, tend think only i can change the things around me...only i have that power...

i do enjoy the world's prettiness...
like the forest behind my house, when all the leaves come in, and they rustle like the sound of waves when the wind blows...

argh, but now i have to beef myself up and get to another therapist...
maybe i should wait a little?

Date: 2009-04-24 03:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lyonesse.livejournal.com
*nods* i wouldn't blame you if you wanted to wait a bit, or consider yourself to be "interviewing" therapists for awhile rather than committing right off....

Date: 2009-04-24 07:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
oh, i have such a hard time interviewing others...
i hate to let them know i don't like or want them for whatever reason...

Date: 2009-04-24 07:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theangelalex.livejournal.com
You can wait as long as you like to find another therapist. You are the one that will set the pace for everything, even when you find a new therapist.

Date: 2009-04-24 07:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
mm, i figure i'll wait till i get the urge again...which could be anywhere from 20 years to a week ^_^'

Date: 2009-04-24 02:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theangelalex.livejournal.com
It is odd that she dumped you by putting the blame of it onto you, you would think that would be counter productive. Sometimes it takes a while to find one you really click with.

Date: 2009-04-24 02:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
i thought that too...like, isn't she supposed to help me? not make me all paranoid?

ughh...i dun wanna have to go through meeting another one...

Date: 2009-04-24 03:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mishlai.livejournal.com
That's crappy, I would be upset if a therapist dumped me too. ; (

That said, I'm glad she's not just wasting your money, and I do not believe that it means that you're un-help-able. The relationship between you and your therapist is important, and if there isn't trust etc. then that person won't be able to do a lot for you.

So you'll need to keep looking for a therapist that you can click with.

That said, yes, I can see that you're defended. You have a cynical humor that I enjoy, but I think that you use this to keep people safely away from your tender bits. Productive therapy will ultimately require you to be deeply vulnerable with your therapist, so it will have to be someone that you can really trust, and that may take a while to develop even once you've found a good match.

It may take steps for you to get to that point, but I would think someone out there knows how to work through those layers.

*a nice hug that doesn't hurt your shoulder*


Date: 2009-04-24 03:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
yeah, it just makes me feel so...unwanted.
and all "what's wrong with me?"

hmmm, i have a hard time trusting anyone completely...mostly cause i've been hurt before by people i've put my trust in. so i've learned not to trust anyone completely...cause when i do, they eventually might betray my trust...
so really, i just expect it, that way, if it happens, i'm not so surprised?

hmm, what are my tender bits though?

hehe -hugs you in a deadman's hug- bwhahahaaa

Date: 2009-04-24 09:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mishlai.livejournal.com
I don't know what your tender bits are, but that's part of what you should be seeking to find out. What is tender? Why is it tender? Who hurt you before, and how is that controlling your life now. Are you happy with half-living so that you never get hurt, or do you feel inhibited by it.

That kind of thing.

*complains about deadman's hug*

"You're gonna break me, woman!"

Date: 2009-04-25 03:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
well, i'm a little afraid of men? ^^;
but then women can be scary too... >_>
i don't feel too inhibited by my lack of trust issues...but i do
by my fear of men :/

mwhahahaaa! deadman's huuuuggg!

Date: 2009-04-25 03:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theangelalex.livejournal.com
fear of men sucks :-( Especially when it limits who you can see as a shrink.

Date: 2009-04-25 12:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
lol, exactly, i don't want to talk to a guy, cause it would make me uncomfortable. but then women are kinda...bitchy...heh ^^;

Date: 2009-04-24 05:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] affablestranger.livejournal.com
Wow. I've never heard of anyone being dumped by their therapist. I've seen the situiation used in comedy sketches and in tv shows and movies, but never IRL. Wow.

Humor is a delfection technique sometimes. Maybe she thought you were trying to dodge issues. That said, she's supposed to have the training to un-dodge you, even if it takes a few months. Sounds like she's either unskilled or pushy and maybe has issues of her own.

All of my therapists have considered me a challenge, to varying degrees. They've said so, usually smiling. Usually.

Date: 2009-04-24 07:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
right? like when i watched "head case"...heh, funny show, in a weird way...

Well sometimes sure, but i was really trying to be open with her and she kept saying i was so defended...i'm not sure what i was doing wrong?

lol, well, everyone seems to think i'm hard to deal with...doctors, teachers, bosses...i get all questioning and want to know the "why"
and they hate when you ask that :/

Date: 2009-04-25 03:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
yeah, but why? -grin-

Date: 2009-04-25 03:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] affablestranger.livejournal.com
'Cause it questions their assumptions, and most folks ain't in the mood for that crap. It makes them irritated and stuff because it makes them think, and thinking leads to *gasp!* questions. And we can't have that.

Date: 2009-04-25 12:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
so, they'd all be happier if i never questioned them, and just did whatever they said? bleah...that sounds like i'm in the armed forces at all times...

Date: 2009-04-25 12:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] affablestranger.livejournal.com
A good therapist won't be like that, though. I've been pretty lucky with mine over the years. I've only had one whose ego got in the way, and I dumped him after three visits. It was obvious it was going nowhere.

Date: 2009-04-24 07:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mmariep2.livejournal.com
I have no experience with therapists. Sorry . That kind of sucks thought that she dumped you through an email. In person or through a formal letter would probably have been more professional.

*hugs*

Date: 2009-04-25 03:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
i dunno in person might have been worse...
weird enough, the last guy i dated told me he cheated on me
through email...yeesh, blame the modern age? ^^

Date: 2009-04-24 09:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mishlai.livejournal.com
She was probably talking to her therapist and was like"

"I have this patient... I feel like crap every time she comes in because she's cooler than me. Then I go home and cry while I practice moonwalking."

And her therapist was like "So stop seeing her if it makes you sad."

And she did, the end. Damn your coolness!

Date: 2009-04-25 03:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
LOL

oh yeah, i'm Soooo coool ;p

if anything i guess i was mean to her...hmmm
but no meaner than i am to you!...er how mean is that? ^^;

Date: 2009-04-25 03:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mishlai.livejournal.com
You rarely cause me any actual upset, but I also recognize your style of meanness as being more playful than personal, and as we've discussed before not everybody gets that. It was something we did in the Navy.

Date: 2009-04-25 03:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
Ah, but occassionally I do? :/
also, i can't spell that word!

Well, but then, sometimes I'm kinda mean to make a point...
though usually when I do that, I also try to show the person
that I too have faults...

So I have Navy humor without have been in the Navy? ^__^

Date: 2009-04-25 04:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mishlai.livejournal.com
2 c's, 1 s it gives me trouble too. Occasionally.

Yes, you upset me now & then, but not that much. It's the times when you're actually telling me something that you don't like and aren't doing it to be funny. It's ok that you do that, I just get my pride stung a little. I don't want you to not say what's on your mind - that's one of the things that's fun about you so don't stop.

I think if we had an intimate emotional relationship I would get wounded by it more easily, and yeah your humor is slightly navy-esque.

Date: 2009-04-25 12:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
hmm, maybe someday i will remember that...2 c's, 1 s, 2 l's...

ok, i will continue to say what i'm thinking...for the most part. ^^
i do actually hold back some stuff...since i know when i think it, that it would be useless and hurtfull to repeat outside my head.

well, yet another reason being friends is good for us? ^_^
this way we don't have to hurt each other and then break up and never talk again...

IN the navyyy! -singing-

Date: 2009-04-24 10:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] reaverok.livejournal.com
I never thought about the idea that a therapist could dump you, but in some ways it makes sense. I could see there being personality conflicts. I know there a number of people that I couldn’t have a meaningful interaction with no matter how much I wanted to try to help them. At the same time, considering it’s a therapist job to help people get over their problems, I expect there might be a better way in dealing with the situation. Personally I don’t take rejection well at all, whether it is from a lover, a friend, or some complete moron stranger I just met. I would expect there would be a lot of people like me in that respect, and I would expect that a person who is supposed to deal with people who have problems would be at least somewhat aware of this.

I don’t even know what it means to be ‘defended’, unless you have a squad of bodyguards escorting you to therapy.

I’ve always thought you seemed very open and easy to know, considering that a lot of the time we spend talking are during short, sporadic smoke breaks. Perhaps that whole begin honest thing is a defensive tactic, you know deflecting a person’s questions by being open and truthful. It’s the perfect plan!

Date: 2009-04-25 03:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
me neither! but apparently they can...

that's what i was thinking! i mean i don't take rejection well either, so wtf with dumping me? but then again, it would've been worse in person...and she did have qualms about it all, since i was non-spiritual. whatever the heck that means!

i had a shield and armor made of jokes? ^^;

yay ^_^ i feel like i talk openly...i tend to say whatever the heck i'm thinking, right?

LOL, yess! that was my eville plan all along! fool her with my wide openess and my honesty! mwhahahaaa

Date: 2009-04-25 05:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] reaverok.livejournal.com
When she said you weren’t as open as you needed to be for her to help you, do think she meant that you weren’t open spiritually? I guess if her method of helping people is using some spiritual method, and you aren’t a spiritual person, then she probably couldn’t have been of much help anyway.

Would that make your defenses laughable?

Of course I’ve never tried to extract various bits of your psyche for my personal analysis, so my knowledge in that regard is limited. But you seem to be willing and able to speak your mind, so far as I’ve seen.

Date: 2009-04-25 12:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
huh, i didn't even think of that, might she might've...i just assumed she meant i was witholding info or something...but really, you just can't say everything about your life in an hour, there's always more.

lol, that would make my defenses Hi-larious!

hmmm, you know, i haven't really tried to anal-eyez you either...
but, i don't think you need it? er, hard to explain...you seem open and honest too, i think, so i guess that's why?

hee ^^;
i totally spill my mind out through my mouth most days...
in a non-brains way.
once in a blue moon though, my brain manages to catch my mouth
before it spills out something completly insulting.

Date: 2009-04-24 11:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wystii.livejournal.com
*hugs*
I can't offer much else since I've never considered going to a therapist though I probably should. I just couldn't imagine opening up to a complete stranger like that.

Chakras and what-not? She sounds like a new-age quack to me. While that might be helpful to some, it obviously isn't your thing. It might have taken 3 sessions for her to admit defeat, but at least it didn't take 3 years.

Email... new-age does not equal professional. It was probably the best you could have expected from her. As for not telling you the entire story, maybe she thought 'defended' would be bad enough and didn't want to cause you further 'damage' - in her *cough* professional *cough* opinion. The dumping has sent you into a bit of a tailspin, hasn't it? Maybe she got that much from her 3 sessions with you and figured that there would be no good way for HER to do it. I agree with others who say that it might take you some shopping around to find a therapist who can actually help you.

Date: 2009-04-25 03:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
i just felt depressed and wondered if therpay might help the bouts of it...
i had a hard time opening up with her as much as i do to friends though...

yeah, she seemed a little new agey, but in yuppy clothing? literally...
true, she could've been really bad, and wasted my time and money.

it totally did make me kinda depressed and angry...as any dumping does, ya know?

true, there never is a good way to dump someone...no nice way to do it ^^;
and i know, having tried time and again to find nice ways...

bleah, shopping for therapists isn't nearly as much fun as shopping for clothes, or plants, or books...or manga!

PS...

Date: 2009-04-25 12:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wystii.livejournal.com
I just noticed the actual question...

This is just roleplaying game psychology, but the personality archetype know as the Jester is defined by someone who hides their truths behind humour. While you can make others laugh, they are distracted from whatever it is you are hiding. It might even distract you from your issues.

Think Duo! He's a classic Jester archetype and how many writers have him being the life of the party until he jumps...? Way, Way too many.

Re: PS...

Date: 2009-04-25 03:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
LOL,
hmmm, maybe this is why i liked writing duo? ^^;
hmm, but did i write him duo-y?

i always did think of him as wearing the jester's mask...

Re: PS...

Date: 2009-04-25 06:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wystii.livejournal.com
I think you did. At least, I enjoyed your portrayals of him enough to follow all your epics. ^^

Re: PS...

Date: 2009-04-25 12:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clary.livejournal.com
-grin-
so many epics...epic duos!

i've actually been talking gundam wing again...
oh! and this very weekend i'll be watching GW with one of the people
above in this here post. i'm looking forward to once again determining just how gay GW is, heheee.
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